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The Iraq War

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Sirrin Nacht
nrocha20
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Shift
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Post by HAWKEYE44 Tue Jan 05, 2010 9:13 pm

Shift wrote:You make me laugh.

Righteous war?

There's no such thing. in war, Everyone is wrong.

the first person for throwing the first punch, the second person for retaliating and then escalating it.

Jeez, are you serious? This is ridiculous, don't go all hippie on me. Are you telling me that if someone punched you in the face, you wouldn't react?
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Post by Guest Tue Jan 05, 2010 9:20 pm

Bad incident that brings up that happened on a bus from school close to mine and the story made national news.


I would retaliate if someone was swingin at me. Today I threw someones lunch away because he called me a retard and he was mocking me because he is a rich spoiled bigot.

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Post by RustyMagnum Wed Jan 06, 2010 2:41 am

Shift wrote:You make me laugh.

Righteous war?

There's no such thing. in war, Everyone is wrong.

the first person for throwing the first punch, the second person for retaliating and then escalating it.

Happenings throughout war are usually not righteous, but the concept can be. For example, WW2 and US retaliation. United States was a neutral country, until it was attacked.
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Post by Shift Wed Jan 06, 2010 2:51 am

Yes. The concept can be. But War itself can never be righteous. No matter how you put it, its still murder.

And btw, unless he was directly insulting me or meant to insult me in some way by throwing the punch, i would swing back. but if it was some dumbass, I wouldn't. I would start attacking him verbally. In this case, politically.
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Post by nrocha20 Thu Jan 07, 2010 7:12 pm

Shift wrote:Yes. The concept can be. But War itself can never be righteous. No matter how you put it, its still murder.

Hypathetical situation: I have my back to you right now, I just got finished raping and killing your sister or mother, your entire family is dead becuase I broke into your house and killed them all. You have a 9mm behind you somehow. Are you saying you would let me turn around and kill and/or rape you and NOT protect yourself?

Shift wrote:And btw, unless he was directly insulting me or meant to insult me in some way by throwing the punch, i would swing back. but if it was some dumbass, I wouldn't. I would start attacking him verbally. In this case, politically.

Right. Because insults work SO well when your a bloody sopping mess on the ground getting the shit beaten out of you.
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Post by Shift Thu Jan 07, 2010 9:01 pm

nrocha20 wrote:
Shift wrote:Yes. The concept can be. But War itself can never be righteous. No matter how you put it, its still murder.

Hypathetical situation: I have my back to you right now, I just got finished raping and killing your sister or mother, your entire family is dead becuase I broke into your house and killed them all. You have a 9mm behind you somehow. Are you saying you would let me turn around and kill and/or rape you and NOT protect yourself?

There are enough holes in this to make swiss cheese. I hope you understand. that my arguement is that War is never righteous. If you jsut did that, of course i would fucking shoot you. did i say it was right? no

nrocha20 wrote:
Shift wrote:And btw, unless he was directly insulting me or meant to insult me in some way by throwing the punch, i would swing back. but if it was some dumbass, I wouldn't. I would start attacking him verbally. In this case, politically.

Right. Because insults work SO well when your a bloody sopping mess on the ground getting the shit beaten out of you.

please read my posts carefully. I said if it was doing anything to me like that, then i would retaliate. but i just noticed something.


You just called yourself a dumbass.

like, literally.

I said i would only not retaliate if it was some DUMBASS insulting me for his own ego. If you are beating the shit out of me (in the scenario above) I guess that makes you a dumbass.
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Post by Damian Thu Jan 07, 2010 9:40 pm

Hey! I've got an idea! Let's stop arguing semantics!
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Post by HAWKEYE44 Thu Jan 07, 2010 10:02 pm

Damian it's the debate section, they're doing the right thing.
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Post by nrocha20 Thu Jan 07, 2010 10:12 pm

Shift wrote:There are enough holes in this to make swiss cheese. I hope you understand. that my arguement is that War is never righteous. If you jsut did that, of course i would fucking shoot you. did i say it was right? no

Believe it or not. Thats the same difference.

Shift wrote:please read my posts carefully. I said if it was doing anything to me like that, then i would retaliate.

I did, it didn't make any sense. You said that if someone punched you, you would punch back. But then you said if it was some dumbass, you wouldn't punch back. A violent act is a violents act regardless of reason. You said you would try to attack him verbally, which justifies my post. Insults won't make a difference if your getting the shit beaten out of you.


Shift wrote:You just called yourself a dumbass.

No, I didn't. I know what I say, and I didn't dirrectly or technically call myself a dumbass.

Shift wrote:I said i would only not retaliate if it was some DUMBASS insulting me for his own ego. If you are beating the shit out of me (in the scenario above) I guess that makes you a dumbass.

You do realize that most people don't murder, beat, and rape for their own ego, correct? Also, it what it is, like you said, just a SCENARIO, and I said it was a hypothetical situation. As in, it never happened. I didn't call myself a dumbass in anyway.
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Post by Shift Thu Jan 07, 2010 11:35 pm

of course you didn't call yourself a dumbass. Your too proud.


You implied it into your argument. No matter how you change around my words and try to give them different meaning, thats the base root of it.


Ha. People that dont beat and shit because of their ego?

Most people that do that have low self esteem or had something happen to them (such as having their egos bruised) and are taking out on other people instead of taking it out in another way.


and i have a prediction that you are going to droop down to a n00b level and start insulting me on this, but i dont quite understand this:



Believe it or not. Thats the same difference.
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Post by nrocha20 Thu Jan 07, 2010 11:51 pm

Shift wrote:of course you didn't call yourself a dumbass. Your too proud.

Then don't say I did. Because I know, and apperently you know, I didn't. Also, you have more stubborn worthless pride than one could imagine. Don't use something in the context of an insult if you are more of that something.

Shift wrote:You implied it into your argument. No matter how you change around my words and try to give them different meaning, thats the base root of it.

I didn't change your words around or change the meaning. I took the words directly from your post and read them carefully. Maybe you should do the same.

Shift wrote:Ha. People that dont beat and shit because of their ego?

No, they do. But most don't. Generalizations don't help you.

Shift wrote:Most people that do that have low self esteem or had something happen to them (such as having their egos bruised) and are taking out on other people instead of taking it out in another way.

Your getting murderers mixed up with dumbasses, junkies, drunks, emos, and other depressed people.

Shift wrote:and i have a prediction

Don't make assumptions, they don't help you look superior like you obviously try to do.

Shift wrote:that you are going to droop down to a n00b level and start insulting me on this,

Sorry to inform you of this but I don't use the word "noob". Its reserved for the retarded people who think they are better than everyone else.

Shift wrote:but i dont quite understand this

If war is never rightious. Yet you would use war, and/or murder to right a wrong, you will end up being in your own defonition a murderer. A war being unrightious, though being done anyway for what would be considered a rightious act is the same thing.
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Post by Shift Fri Jan 08, 2010 12:22 am

I never said that i wouldn't go to war. i stated the it was not righteous. Thats all i said. Wouldn't i be a hypocrite if i said that and then went and did something like it and declared myself righteous?


Then don't say I did. Because I know, and apperently you know, I didn't. Also, you have more stubborn worthless pride than one could imagine. Don't use something in the context of an insult if you are more of that something.

You interrpretted that as an insult. Listen to your own words:



Don't make assumptions, they don't help you look superior like you obviously try to do.

on that note. You made the assumption that i was trying to be all high and mighty. So you might as well stop now.


and i have a prediction

*hinthintSarcasmhinthint*



No, they do. But most don't. Generalizations don't help you.

Generalizations?

unless that person is completely mental, they didn't murder unless someone or something affected their ego.



Your getting murderers mixed up with dumbasses, junkies, drunks, emos, and other depressed people.

And who makes up most of the murderer group....?

Its like saying a square is a rectangle, but a rectangle is not a square.



Sorry to inform you of this but I don't use the word "noob". Its reserved for the retarded people who think they are better than everyone else.

notice how i said n00b "level" meaning, stooping down to it. I wasn't calling you a n00b.

btw. There have been some cases where you thought you thought you were better than everyone else.
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Post by nrocha20 Fri Jan 08, 2010 12:41 am

Shift wrote:I never said that i wouldn't go to war. i stated the it was not righteous. Thats all i said. Wouldn't i be a hypocrite if i said that and then went and did something like it and declared myself righteous?

Your being unconvinced.

Shift wrote:You interrpretted that as an insult. Listen to your own words:

Don't say something in the context of an insult if you don't want it to be interpreted as an insult.

Shift wrote:on that note. You made the assumption that i was trying to be all high and mighty. So you might as well stop now.

You ARE trying to be high and mighty. As I was back when every word that came out of my mouth was an insult. There is a difference between assuming and knowing.

Shift wrote:*hinthintSarcasmhinthint*

If something is useless to say, don't say it.

Shift wrote:Generalizations?

Look it up. I'm not going to hand everything to you on a silver platter.

Shift wrote:unless that person is completely mental, they didn't murder unless someone or something affected their ego.

You might want to learn what an ego is before continueing.

Shift wrote:And who makes up most of the murderer group....?

Its like saying a square is a rectangle, but a rectangle is not a square.

You do know what a dictionary is right? A rectangle is a four sided shape, with two sets of two equal line segments. A square is a four sided shape with all four line segments equal. Get it right.

Shift wrote:notice how i said n00b "level" meaning, stooping down to it. I wasn't calling you a n00b.

Same difference, "Noob".

Shift wrote:btw. There have been some cases where you thought you thought you were better than everyone else.

Don't boost my ego by being a retard then.
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Post by Shift Fri Jan 08, 2010 12:51 am

Ok. Seriously


When i said:

"Generalizations?"

I wasn't asking for what generalizing was. You seriously think you're that much smarter than me?

you think you're arguments are always better due to the fact that you pull apart the words in the other person's post and make it seem mroe "mature" by adding in insults here and there.

ok.; so i got square and rectangle mixed up. You seriously gonna go and be a prick because of that? If you're as smart as you say you are, then im sure you got the meaning of it. If not, seek some help.

i also KNOW that you are gonna take that last sentence in that paragraph and make a comment about it. not assuming, i KNOW that you would if i hadn't typed this.


uh, no. Im not being all high and mighty. You're the one whos always been trying to act like you're all high and mighty by insulting everyone, and then when they retaliate, you attempt to insult them back as if saying "What fuck? How dare you insult me back!" especially when you insulted a very CLEAR, SIMPLE, statement.

what you did was not start a debate, what you started was a flame war.


The root of this, however, is that you think that your view of the world is the only correct view of the world and you have this damn stupid thought in your head that im some stupid naive bastard.


Being called a noob and stooping their level are not the same thing. by saing stoop, dont you think im saying you're better than n00bs? ok. how about i write "retard"?
hmm?

make you feel better that you made me change the simple noun "noob" to the noun retard?

you accomplished quite a lot there my friend. quite a lot.

Look it up. I'm not going to hand everything to you on a silver platter.

you honestly cant say you weren't nit picking and pulling my post apart when you say this.
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Post by LadyAkari Fri Jan 08, 2010 2:13 am

I think the US should pull out of Iraq, and kind of mind their own business... Focus more on the issues at home, rather than play super hero. I don't like the war, because, it kills innocent people. People, who don't even deserve to die. Who are we to decide who lives and who dies? We never created the world, and we're killing the land, that holds life. Soon, after the war is over, people are going to start hurting eachother, because there wont be all that many resources... And the entire world will suffer because of us humans...
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Post by HAWKEYE44 Fri Jan 08, 2010 6:03 am

Okay, I guess it's about time I get in on this. Alright, they attacked us first, we are striking back. Also, right now we are helping Iraq build up its government and military. Our main goal is to take out the terrorists, and I don't know about you but I always thought terrorists are generally bad people. Also, a lot of this war goes back to the Monroe Doctrine.
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Post by RustyMagnum Fri Jan 08, 2010 7:40 am

HAWKEYE44 wrote:Okay, I guess it's about time I get in on this. Alright, they attacked us first, we are striking back. Also, right now we are helping Iraq build up its government and military. Our main goal is to take out the terrorists, and I don't know about you but I always thought terrorists are generally bad people. Also, a lot of this war goes back to the Monroe Doctrine.

I repeat, IRAQ NEVER ATTACKED UNITED STATES. Not during the Gulf Wars, and not during the 2000th decade. It was the terrorists, therefore US attack against Iraq military forces was unrighteous.

Which then again makes this current ''help to rebuild Iraqi government and military'' hypocritish, since first you destroyed a fairly working government and strong military. ''Divide and conquer'', as they say.

Of course the fact that US currently has troops in Iraqi territory has a good side in it, after all it keeps Iran from doing whatever they want to around there as NATO has troops on both sides of the country.
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Post by Damian Fri Jan 08, 2010 9:18 am

HAWKEYE44 wrote:Damian it's the debate section, they're doing the right thing.

Debating and arguing over nuances are not the same thing.
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Post by Shift Fri Jan 08, 2010 9:32 am

so anyways. The reason We started attacking Iraq was because they were harboring the group that caused 9/11.
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Post by HAWKEYE44 Fri Jan 08, 2010 9:39 am

[/quote]

I repeat, IRAQ NEVER ATTACKED UNITED STATES. Not during the Gulf Wars, and not during the 2000th decade. It was the terrorists, therefore US attack against Iraq military forces was unrighteous.

Which then again makes this current ''help to rebuild Iraqi government and military'' hypocritish, since first you destroyed a fairly working government and strong military. ''Divide and conquer'', as they say.

Of course the fact that US currently has troops in Iraqi territory has a good side in it, after all it keeps Iran from doing whatever they want to around there as NATO has troops on both sides of the country.[/quote]

I know they never attacked us, terrorists did. And these terrorists are in there and the surrounding countries. I agree with you, oi vei, I basically said the same thing as you. Also, do you know what the Monroe doctrine is? And when I said "they" I was referring to the terrorists not the entire country.
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Post by nrocha20 Fri Jan 08, 2010 4:54 pm

Shift wrote:I wasn't asking for what generalizing was.

Then don't say it in the form of a question.

Shift wrote:You seriously think you're that much smarter than me?

I haven't said that once.

Shift wrote:you think you're arguments are always better due to the fact that you pull apart the words in the other person's post and make it seem mroe "mature" by adding in insults here and there.

No. I take your post apart for orginizational purposes, notice I never destroyed the meaning of anything you said. Also, notice that most of the insults are coming form you. I've been calm the whole time.

Shift wrote:ok.; so i got square and rectangle mixed up. You seriously gonna go and be a prick because of that?

I find it funny that if you get something wrong, I'm a prick. But if I get something wrong, and fi it, I'm still a prick.

Shift wrote:If you're as smart as you say you are,

I haven't said that once... again.

Shift wrote:then im sure you got the meaning of it. If not, seek some help.

There was no meaning. You asked who made up this murderer stuff, and I sarcasticly asked you if you know what a dictionary is. Translating the sarcasm to English would be: "The dictionary, and government". Common Sense helps to.

Shift wrote:i also KNOW that you are gonna take that last sentence in that paragraph and make a comment about it. not assuming, i KNOW that you would if i hadn't typed this.

You really think I'm NOT going to do something just because you say you know I am/am not? I'm not that proud. Thats is actually quite insulting. It would be more so if I knew for certain what you were refurring to.

Shift wrote:uh, no. Im not being all high and mighty. You're the one whos always been trying to act like you're all high and mighty by insulting everyone,

You were then, you were on SE, you are now. And I haven't insulted everyone, I've thrown a few at you to retaliate for the ones you through at me, quite simple.

Shift wrote:and then when they retaliate, you attempt to insult them back as if saying "What fuck? How dare you insult me back!" especially when you insulted a very CLEAR, SIMPLE, statement.

Yes, I WAS quite arrogant WASn't I? I mean I may have been right, but I should've controlled myself better. But again, I WAS right, and you WERE wrong. Thats just how the simple system works. Now, if you don't mind, I'd like to get back to 2010.

Shift wrote:what you did was not start a debate, what you started was a flame war.

I didn't start anything, I contered your opinion with my own. You took it offensive, and here we are.

Shift wrote:The root of this, however, is that you think that your view of the world is the only correct view of the world and you have this damn stupid thought in your head that im some stupid naive bastard.

I never, not once in my whole life, stated, or even thought, that my view is the only correct view. I've stated that what I was saying was right and yours was wrong, but thats because it was true. I don't fight about opinions, I fight about cold, hard facts. If you didn't act like a "stupid naive bastard" I wouldn't think of you as one. Also Riku, I don't bring other arguements or past things into current ones, its just not my style. If you talk to me outside of an arguement and don't bring up other things to me, it won't really matter. The reason I got pissy at you on SE was because you were flaunting your power at me, and "warning" me when a warning wasn't needed. Were not even on topic anymore, your just bringing in personal fealings, If you want to talk to me personally, and sort this out reasonably, send me a PM.

Shift wrote:Being called a noob and stooping their level are not the same thing. by saing stoop, dont you think im saying you're better than n00bs? ok. how about i write "retard"?
hmm?

Not really. When you say stoop to a noobs level, your basically calling me a noob. And I'm not a retard, I know I'm not a genius, but I'm not retaded either. If you want to label me, call me an asshole, or a bitch, or a freak. Those seam more appropriate, despite being insults.

Shift wrote:you accomplished quite a lot there my friend. quite a lot.

I don't quite fallow you on that.

Shift wrote:you honestly cant say you weren't nit picking and pulling my post apart when you say this.

I have already covered this. I never destroyed your posts meaning by pulling it apart, I simply made it easier to argue with by organizing my counters. Also, that quote had nothing to do with this meaning.

Now I say again, if you wish to sort this off topic discussion out, send me a PM.
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Post by LadyAkari Fri Jan 08, 2010 5:16 pm

But, at the same time, people at home are also panicking. But, I totally get the whole retaliation thing, I just don't see why we think we have to improve someone else's government, no matter how corrupt, we think it is, I don't think it's our business.
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Post by nrocha20 Fri Jan 08, 2010 6:32 pm

Akari is correct. In my view anyway.
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Post by Shift Fri Jan 08, 2010 6:45 pm

so anyways. Im not even gonna read nrocha's post since they're just getting boring now. If its our own safety, i think its necessary, especially if we invaded their country. I dont think this "democratic"



Actually, i did catch one thing. You say that your view was the correct view?

how is an OPINION correct. please tell. I didn't know opinions could be a fact at the same time.
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Post by LadyAkari Fri Jan 08, 2010 6:48 pm

Opinions are not facts, they are thoughts. That's all they are, and ever will be...
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